Mary Jo Thayer is a best-selling, award-winning novelist, educator, and public speaker. Her Sand and Soul Series explores tough life topics. Her first novel, Close to the Soul, a story of rape and redemption, hope and healing, was published in 2021. The second in the series, the newly released Running Out of Sand, explores the topic of alcoholism after tragedy and regret, and the effects addiction has on a family. Mary Jo has appeared on numerous podcasts where she talks about everything from books to spirituality to mental and physical health. Her articles and short stories have appeared in several publications, and her novels tackle tough life issues through a Theology of the Body lens. She and her high school sweetheart husband, John, are parents to four married children and nine grandchildren (so far). They split their time among Michigan, Florida, and wherever a plane might take them.
Visit Mary Jo Thayer online
Running out of Sand
Silvester Fandel didn’t intend to become a drunk. He vowed not to. But his inability to save and protect those he cares about leaves him with emotions only alcohol can tame, just like generations of men on his mother’s side. When Sil’s myriad of shortcomings flood his mind, he becomes desperate to handle the stress in the quickest way possible. His drinking threatens not only his faith but also his standing with his family, his career, and his relationships with women. When he hits rock bottom, he fears being unable to save any of those things. Mostly, though, he questions the strength of his resolve to save himself. Running Out of Sand is a story of tragedy, endurance, love, and the grip that alcohol can have on a really good man.
- ISBN: B0H3PKGTWD
- Publisher: Full Quiver Publishing
Interview with Mary Jo Thayer 2026
What can readers look forward to from Running Out of Sand?
Silvester Fandel will cause a gamut of emotions in my readers. He’s a complex character with a big problem. Every ARC reader, including four men, has given the novel high praise, which makes my heart very happy. It’s my first male character, and I am delighted that I wrote him well.
When did you feel called to become an author?
I have dabbled in short stories and poetry since sixth grade, but it was my junior year in high school that an idea for a novel began to take shape, as I learned about difficult experiences from rumors I heard or things I read. I grew up in a small city neighborhood as one of the youngest kids on the block and witnessed some things I probably shouldn’t have. The premise of my first book sat on the back burner for many years, in favor of raising our children and, later, teaching high school. I became a mentor of sorts not only to my students, but also to a few colleagues and other mothers. Real life offers great fodder for fictional stories! A relocation to the other side of Michigan for my husband’s job allowed me to retire from the classroom. It was a year or so later that I opened a Word document and began writing Close to the Soul, pounding out the prologue and first 75,000 words in a few weeks.
What did you learn while writing this series?
First, I learned that I could actually write a novel with plots, characters, and chapters. The second thing I learned is that I had no idea how to write a novel. First-time authors who stumble upon a brilliant developmental editor, as I did, know exactly what I mean! I was all over the place with POV, head hopping as if it were an Olympic sport. I had to flip the entirety of Close to the Soul into one POV and had no idea how to do that. I also needed to green the manuscript and cut out every plot line that did not move the story forward. I was lucky to be born with a tenacious personality, so I reached out to an international best-selling author I’ve known since elementary school, and she gave me 45-minutes of the best advice. Couple that with my developmental editor and Google, and I was on my way to cutting around 15,000 words! I also learned about how tedious, yet rewarding, it can be to see a book through to publication. And then I learned that same lesson when it came time to market it! Truthfully, these same things haven’t been too much different with Running Out of Sand. There are always things the author cannot see. There is always a need for an editor and always editing that could be done.
What is the toughest part of writing in your genre?
Since this series is set in the 50s and 60s, a fair amount of research is necessary for historical accuracy. Authors cannot trust AI, or every site that pops up first. Sometimes, it’s a matter of double or triple-checking sources. Because most of my readers have a good deal of experience with that time period, accuracy becomes super important because they, along with reviewers, will call me out on mistakes!
If someone were to look at your Google search history (all for research, of course!), what types of things would we find?
If readers could browse through my Google search history, they would find a variety of everything from the time period: the architecture of homes, paint colors, fabrics, carpeting, car models, manufacturing plants, clothing, college atmospheres, life at the lakeside, vacation plans, television shows, high school sports and uniforms, the Vietnam War, trauma responses, social norms, religious upbringings, common foods, verbal expressions, and career opportunities for both men and women.
How do your faith and spiritual life play into the picture and affect your storytelling?
Writing stories where faith plays a primary role is critically important to me. I have been a Christian since my infant baptism and have never wavered (or at least never questioned for longer than a minute or two). Faith is believing in what we cannot see, and I regard it as the greatest anchor in my life. Struggles come and go, life can get really hard, and bad things happen. But if one chooses to believe in Someone greater than one’s own humanity, it eases the loneliness. We can learn to unite our sufferings with the sufferings of Christ on the Cross, and we can know deep in our hearts that He did first what we shall do. Each morning when we rise, our days are somewhat of a mirror to the Paschal mystery of Christ: His birth, life, passion, and death. My characters struggle with trauma and sin. They need a Savior. How sweet it is for them and us to walk with Him and to know that He is with us and loves us no matter what we’ve done or where we’ve been. At the end of my books, I want readers to be encouraged and know they are loved by the One who is Love, and that all things are possible through Christ who strengthens us.
What do you consider the greatest moment of your writing/publishing career?
The greatest moment is receiving the proof copy of Close to the Soul, just before it went to publication. I cried and cried.
The greatest moment of shock was when I learned that Close to the Soul was a number one New Release Best-Seller on Amazon and won the American Fiction Awards in its category for 2021.
What is the funniest thing that has happened to you as an author?
Something that delighted me to no end was attending my first book club discussion (as an author) and listening to the women express their anger at certain characters. They weren’t mad at me. They were mad at the characters! I had no idea how invested readers could be. I couldn’t help but laugh with them.
If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be?
I think back to when I was a child growing up in a huge family with seven older siblings, siblings-in-law, and numerous elderly adults. I had a lot of people telling me what to do all the time, as you can imagine. I would tell my younger self this: “You are a really good person. God made you so very good. He gave you the ability to love and be loved, and He has a plan for your life. All you need to do is cling to Him. And just like He gave the disciple John his mother from the Cross, you have a heavenly mother in Mary who loves you as if you were her own. You have a lot of helpers in the saints, and they will pray for you just like your best friends on earth will pray for you when you ask them to. You were made for heaven, and as long as you follow Him, everything will be okay.”
What’s your biggest challenge in balancing writing time with your other responsibilities?
I am a people person, and I will always let people take my time. After all, my time is the Lord’s, and the people He sends me are His children. I believe I have found a good balance, planning my writing days when my husband is busy with home projects or sports he enjoys. I also work hard between guests and our immediate family functions. My husband is wildly supportive of my “career” as an author, and we are both retired, so I have a luxury many authors do not.
What do you enjoy doing when you are not writing?
When I am not writing, you are likely to find me on the pickleball court, playing golf, water skiing, hanging with our children and grandchildren, socializing with friends, chatting on the phone with various people who hold special places in my life, or hosting a party.
What books are on your TBR pile right now?
One of my challenges with writing is doing due diligence to reading! My Kindle is full! Currently, I look forward to diving into the latest from Roseanna White, Rhonda Ortiz, Denise Marie Martin, Stephanie Anselm, Jim Sano, Rick Boyne, and ML Barrs. Those should keep me busy for a while.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Kathy McKinsey grew up on a pig farm in Missouri, and although she’s lived in cities for 40-
something years, she still considers herself a farm girl.
Kathy’s been married to Murray for 38 years, and they have five adult children.
Kathy had two careers before writing—stay-at-home-Mom and rehabilitation teacher for the
blind.
She lives in Cleveland, Ohio, with her husband and two of their children. Besides writing, she
enjoys activities with her church, editing for other writers, braille drawing and grading braille
manuscripts, crocheting, knitting, and playing with their rambunctious cats.
https://www.kathymckinsey.com
Silvester Fandel will cause a gamut of emotions in my readers. He’s a complex character with a big problem. Every ARC reader, including four men, has given the novel high praise, which makes my heart very happy. It’s my first male character, and I am delighted that I wrote him well.
When did you feel called to become an author?
I have dabbled in short stories and poetry since sixth grade, but it was my junior year in high school that an idea for a novel began to take shape, as I learned about difficult experiences from rumors I heard or things I read. I grew up in a small city neighborhood as one of the youngest kids on the block and witnessed some things I probably shouldn’t have. The premise of my first book sat on the back burner for many years, in favor of raising our children and, later, teaching high school. I became a mentor of sorts not only to my students, but also to a few colleagues and other mothers. Real life offers great fodder for fictional stories! A relocation to the other side of Michigan for my husband’s job allowed me to retire from the classroom. It was a year or so later that I opened a Word document and began writing Close to the Soul, pounding out the prologue and first 75,000 words in a few weeks.
What did you learn while writing this series?
First, I learned that I could actually write a novel with plots, characters, and chapters. The second thing I learned is that I had no idea how to write a novel. First-time authors who stumble upon a brilliant developmental editor, as I did, know exactly what I mean! I was all over the place with POV, head hopping as if it were an Olympic sport. I had to flip the entirety of Close to the Soul into one POV and had no idea how to do that. I also needed to green the manuscript and cut out every plot line that did not move the story forward. I was lucky to be born with a tenacious personality, so I reached out to an international best-selling author I’ve known since elementary school, and she gave me 45-minutes of the best advice. Couple that with my developmental editor and Google, and I was on my way to cutting around 15,000 words! I also learned about how tedious, yet rewarding, it can be to see a book through to publication. And then I learned that same lesson when it came time to market it! Truthfully, these same things haven’t been too much different with Running Out of Sand. There are always things the author cannot see. There is always a need for an editor and always editing that could be done.
What is the toughest part of writing in your genre?
Since this series is set in the 50s and 60s, a fair amount of research is necessary for historical accuracy. Authors cannot trust AI, or every site that pops up first. Sometimes, it’s a matter of double or triple-checking sources. Because most of my readers have a good deal of experience with that time period, accuracy becomes super important because they, along with reviewers, will call me out on mistakes!
If someone were to look at your Google search history (all for research, of course!), what types of things would we find?
If readers could browse through my Google search history, they would find a variety of everything from the time period: the architecture of homes, paint colors, fabrics, carpeting, car models, manufacturing plants, clothing, college atmospheres, life at the lakeside, vacation plans, television shows, high school sports and uniforms, the Vietnam War, trauma responses, social norms, religious upbringings, common foods, verbal expressions, and career opportunities for both men and women.
How do your faith and spiritual life play into the picture and affect your storytelling?
Writing stories where faith plays a primary role is critically important to me. I have been a Christian since my infant baptism and have never wavered (or at least never questioned for longer than a minute or two). Faith is believing in what we cannot see, and I regard it as the greatest anchor in my life. Struggles come and go, life can get really hard, and bad things happen. But if one chooses to believe in Someone greater than one’s own humanity, it eases the loneliness. We can learn to unite our sufferings with the sufferings of Christ on the Cross, and we can know deep in our hearts that He did first what we shall do. Each morning when we rise, our days are somewhat of a mirror to the Paschal mystery of Christ: His birth, life, passion, and death. My characters struggle with trauma and sin. They need a Savior. How sweet it is for them and us to walk with Him and to know that He is with us and loves us no matter what we’ve done or where we’ve been. At the end of my books, I want readers to be encouraged and know they are loved by the One who is Love, and that all things are possible through Christ who strengthens us.
What do you consider the greatest moment of your writing/publishing career?
The greatest moment is receiving the proof copy of Close to the Soul, just before it went to publication. I cried and cried.
The greatest moment of shock was when I learned that Close to the Soul was a number one New Release Best-Seller on Amazon and won the American Fiction Awards in its category for 2021.
What is the funniest thing that has happened to you as an author?
Something that delighted me to no end was attending my first book club discussion (as an author) and listening to the women express their anger at certain characters. They weren’t mad at me. They were mad at the characters! I had no idea how invested readers could be. I couldn’t help but laugh with them.
If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be?
I think back to when I was a child growing up in a huge family with seven older siblings, siblings-in-law, and numerous elderly adults. I had a lot of people telling me what to do all the time, as you can imagine. I would tell my younger self this: “You are a really good person. God made you so very good. He gave you the ability to love and be loved, and He has a plan for your life. All you need to do is cling to Him. And just like He gave the disciple John his mother from the Cross, you have a heavenly mother in Mary who loves you as if you were her own. You have a lot of helpers in the saints, and they will pray for you just like your best friends on earth will pray for you when you ask them to. You were made for heaven, and as long as you follow Him, everything will be okay.”
What’s your biggest challenge in balancing writing time with your other responsibilities?
I am a people person, and I will always let people take my time. After all, my time is the Lord’s, and the people He sends me are His children. I believe I have found a good balance, planning my writing days when my husband is busy with home projects or sports he enjoys. I also work hard between guests and our immediate family functions. My husband is wildly supportive of my “career” as an author, and we are both retired, so I have a luxury many authors do not.
What do you enjoy doing when you are not writing?
When I am not writing, you are likely to find me on the pickleball court, playing golf, water skiing, hanging with our children and grandchildren, socializing with friends, chatting on the phone with various people who hold special places in my life, or hosting a party.
What books are on your TBR pile right now?
One of my challenges with writing is doing due diligence to reading! My Kindle is full! Currently, I look forward to diving into the latest from Roseanna White, Rhonda Ortiz, Denise Marie Martin, Stephanie Anselm, Jim Sano, Rick Boyne, and ML Barrs. Those should keep me busy for a while.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Kathy McKinsey grew up on a pig farm in Missouri, and although she’s lived in cities for 40-
something years, she still considers herself a farm girl.
Kathy’s been married to Murray for 38 years, and they have five adult children.
Kathy had two careers before writing—stay-at-home-Mom and rehabilitation teacher for the
blind.
She lives in Cleveland, Ohio, with her husband and two of their children. Besides writing, she
enjoys activities with her church, editing for other writers, braille drawing and grading braille
manuscripts, crocheting, knitting, and playing with their rambunctious cats.
https://www.kathymckinsey.com
For more great interviews, visit our Author Interview Archives.